“Roll with Cole & Charisma" On Building a Life Together as an Interabled Couple

Episode Transcript

Dr. Correa:
From the American Academy of Neurology, I'm Dr. Daniel Correa.

Dr. Peters:
And I am Dr. Katie Peters. And this is the Brain and Life Podcast.
I like to look at Instagram and YouTube. It's primarily for cooking tips and cat videos. Social media platforms can also be used as powerful tools for advocacy and education. It allows people to reach large audiences, raise awareness, mobilize support for a cause that they might have. Daniel, what are your thoughts on social media? Is it a place to educate and form and advocate?

Dr. Correa:
I think it's a place where we're all figuring out how to use it better and the right way and not take away from our time with family and friends, our sleep. It's a challenge. I think we need to learn how to use it more because it's space where we're all spending time.

Dr. Peters:
It's a tool.

Dr. Correa:
And hopefully it could be a tool for us to learn more about each other, about our communities, about our own health. But we got to balance that out with how much it just drives into sucking our attention away from everything.

Dr. Peters:
I completely agree. I can get really addicted to those cat videos. But for this podcast, I got a chance to chat with social media stars Cole and Charisma Sydnor, who share their lives with their followers on their neat YouTube channel. It's called Roll With Cole and Charisma. This inter-abled couple actually shares Cole's journey facing the implications of him becoming quadriplegic after Cole's accident at the age of 16. They share everything from their current exercise goals and routines to dressing when being quadriplegic, to playing video games, which I thought was really neat. It was an uplifting conversation with a couple that really likes to share and likes to learn.
We're also joined by Dr. Alberto Martinez from the University of Miami Health System to discuss spinal cord injury such as quadriplegia.

Dr. Correa:
I mean, this is great. This is the opportunity where we really get a chance to see how people are living and sharing in their own space. And it's nice that they're very open in what their experience in life is together and not just showing the good.

Dr. Peters:
Hello Brain and Life podcast listeners. And I'm excited today because today is going to be double special, double fun because we have two guests. Our guests are Cole and Charisma Sydnor. They host their YouTube channel entitled Roll with Cole and Charisma, which highlights the need for accessibility for all individuals, including couples that are differently abled. And so I just want to say welcome to the Brain and Life podcast, Cole and Charisma.

Charisma Sydnor:
Hey, thank you. Thank you for having us.

Cole Sydnor:
Thank you. Yes. We're happy to be here. Happy to talk neuro.

Dr. Peters:
Great. I like that. Let's get going. So tell me, where are you joining us from today?

Charisma Sydnor:
We are based out of Los Angeles, California. We moved here about two and a half years ago.

Cole Sydnor:
And it is a rare rainy day, so this is perfect to sit in here and chat with you guys.

Dr. Peters:
Great, great. Well just tell us about yourself and tell us about your great YouTube channel.

Charisma Sydnor:
So I'm Charisma.

Cole Sydnor:
And I am Cole, obviously.

Charisma Sydnor:
We started our YouTube channel almost six years ago. And we just started it because I was receiving a lot of questions from family and friends about some of the adventures that we went on and some challenges that we face as an inter-abled couple. And we just figured it'd be a fun way to share our experiences.

Cole Sydnor:
It started out more as a hobby for us, I would say. Until we saw that a lot of people were interested in what we were sharing and wanted to see more, and we were like, okay, wait a minute, we could really make an impact and really raise awareness out in the world. So we just kept it rolling. I'm glad we did.

Charisma Sydnor:
I know. I love it. It's so fun. It's a great way to just share some education and raise awareness at the same time.

Cole Sydnor:
Yep.

Dr. Peters:
I think that's great. And for our listeners, can you tell them what the term inter-abled actually means?

Cole Sydnor:
So as someone with a disability, and I would encourage anyone to use the word disabled, it's not a bad word. As a disabled person dating someone who is non-disabled, we have different levels of ability, obviously. And so we just call ourselves an inter-abled couple. And that's really just more so people can find us being on social media, like using tags and things. We want people to be able to identify and be able to find us in case they're in a similar position as us and want to learn.

Charisma Sydnor:
And also, just so you know, Cole is a C5, C6 quadriplegic. I don't think we mentioned that.

Cole Sydnor:
Yes. Spinal cord injury for, what is it, 12 years now?

Charisma Sydnor:
Yeah.

Cole Sydnor:
Yeah.

Dr. Peters:
Great. Well, thank you for sharing that sort of definition because I think all of our listeners have different abilities. A lot of our listeners will have maybe a neurologic illness or a neurologic condition, or maybe they're a care partner or a loved one of someone that has one. So thank you for sharing. And Cole, you mentioned that you're quadriplegic. You were in an accident at the age of 16 that led to your spinal cord injury. Can you just sort of share with our listeners a little bit more about that and how you're doing today?

Cole Sydnor:
Yeah. Well, so when I was 16 years old, everything changed. I was very privileged to grow up with every need that I had being met, and that was a beautiful thing. I didn't have a lot of adversity in my life. Until I went with my friends and dove into shallow water at a river. The James River runs through Richmond where I grew up. And I broke my neck at C5, C6 like Charisma mentioned. And everything changed.
My life, which was so easy now all of a sudden was incredibly difficult. And it was quite a journey of recovery and rehabilitation, not only physically but also mentally as well. Because you can heal your body, but you got to heal your mind too. And honestly, I'm not sure which one was more difficult. They were both equally as challenging. My body I think recovered more quickly, but my mind took a lot longer.
And it's been quite a journey. It's been quite a journey. And the YouTube channel that we started is actually something that really, really helped me grow and evolve when it comes to my healing and just embracing my disability. And so I've enjoyed so much being able to explore and try all these new things I never would've tried if we didn't have this YouTube channel because I learned how full my life could be if I let it.

Dr. Peters:
That's great. And Charisma, you and Cole are now married. And you talk about a lot of the things. I saw the dates on your YouTube channel, which I think is a lot of fun. But can you talk about your role as a wife and a care partner for somebody with a spinal cord injury?

Charisma Sydnor:
Yes. So I didn't start taking on the caregiving role until we had moved out of Cole's parents' house right before we got married. And then I started taking on the full-time role. But for me, it just kind of is a part of being a wife. I don't try to separate those two roles at all. It is just one role for me. I'm a wife, but also a caregiver at the same time. Both happen simultaneously and we figure it out. We have to have our roles, we have to communicate. I have to tell him I might be feeling a little burnt out. Can we take a break for the day? I need to do a little self-care. I feel like you have to have a lot of communication when you're taking on both roles and when you're taking on a caregiving role in a partnership.

Dr. Peters:
And can you share your hopes and aspirations for patients with disabilities or mobility issues? What do you guys hope for?

Cole Sydnor:
My hope, and when I think about what I would like people out there with spinal cord injuries or whatever disability to consider, I often think about what I would tell myself when I was 16, freshly injured. And I would tell myself firstly that nothing is wrong with you. I think a lot of people that are disabled feel like there's something wrong with them because they're disabled. And I mean, you can look at that however you'd like, of course. I don't want my disability to be something I'm ashamed of or I think is wrong. And I don't want to view it as something that's going to get in the way of living a fulfilling, happy, beautiful life. And so I would tell myself, just be open and be accepting and go after the things you want in life. Don't let your disability dictate your experience. You dictate your experience. You can have the life you want, whatever your circumstances are.

Charisma Sydnor:
Yeah. And then also, I hope that society becomes a more warm and accepting place for people with disabilities. I feel like there's a lot of stigma. And so my hope is that society changes their perspective, changes their perspective a lot. And then to see that people with disabilities are valuable partners.

Cole Sydnor:
And lastly, I would like to add too, you just made me think of something else. Don't carry the burden of inaccessibility. And it took me a long time to realize this. I don't think it should be our fault that things are not accessible to us. In the sense that when you go out into the world, I can't be blamed because this historic building decided not to put any sort of accommodations in for people with disabilities. That's not my fault. It's just an inaccessible world we live in sometimes.

Dr. Peters:
Well, I think you've got a lot in there, and I just, you need to dictate your own experience. And everything you described is really about what quality of life is. You've got to be what you are, you've got to belong to what's there and whether you have to adapt to it or not. And then also you're becoming sort of your future and what are your next steps. So I guess that's what I'm curious about. What is the next steps in your journey with maybe your YouTube channel or your advocacy? What would be your next steps?

Charisma Sydnor:
One big thing that we're working on, I think we're a couple years out, but is planning an event. It's focusing on arts in the disabled community. Of course, it's open to all people, but we want to really focus on the disabled community and making sure that they have opportunities and the resources to pursue whatever career in the arts that they would want to pursue, such as influencing dancing, acting, et cetera. So we want to just have this big event where we all come together and share resources and mingle and connect to each other.

Cole Sydnor:
Yeah, that's something we're passionate about because we've found in our experience on social media that there's a lot more representation we need out there. Across the board, not just spinal cord injury, not just SMA, not just MS, any neuro condition or any disability, I think we need representation of. And so we're in a position now where we have learned a lot and we can pass that information on to other people so that they can get out there and start being that representation in the world that we need.

Dr. Peters:
And now you've got our podcast. You've got all our listeners. Now, I'm also personally inspired by your 2024 exercise commitment. Exercise is really important to our listeners. We've had a lot of episodes about exercise and how it can help patients with neurological illness. It sounds like you've been very committed. You guys are exercising every day? Do you have any tips for our listeners?

Charisma Sydnor:
So, so, so important. It's just a great mood booster. We started exercise in the beginning of this year, and we just found that we are so much more motivated. And I think a lot of people struggle because they have a hard time finding the time to do it. But when it comes to working out and exercising, you just have to make the time. Whether that's waking up an extra 30 minutes, going to bed a little later, taking a shorter lunch break, you just have to find the time where you can squeeze that in because you're going to feel so, so, so much better. Even if that's just walking outside. It doesn't have to be intense exercise, but just getting out moving your body is so important.

Cole Sydnor:
Absolutely. I totally agree. And Charisma is a big motivator for me to continue working out because personally, I do not like working out.

Charisma Sydnor:
No, Cole doesn't.

Cole Sydnor:
I do not like it. I don't want to do it. I don't want to get up and just work. What? No, I don't want to do that.
However, one of my biggest struggles is my ADHD. We talk a lot about my spinal cord injury and how that impacts our lives and our activities of daily living. But truly, I think my ADHD has as much or maybe even bigger an impact on our life and our relationship than my spinal cord injury does. And so our whole relationship, I've been trying to find a good healthy solution that'll make me, not make me, but will improve my symptoms. And what I've found in working out is that's probably the best natural medication I've found for having more focus and energy and drive throughout the day. So it has been a great year because we've been really committed and I feel like I'm starting to get on top of those ADHD symptoms a little bit.

Charisma Sydnor:
I know Cole was so reluctant to recognize the fact that working out was-

Cole Sydnor:
Whatever, dude.

Charisma Sydnor:
Was helping with his focus and his drive and his commitment to doing things. He was like, "Oh, I hate to admit this, but working out really has improved all of that."

Cole Sydnor:
As soon as I admit it, I have to keep doing it.

Charisma Sydnor:
I know.

Cole Sydnor:
That's the annoying part.

Dr. Peters:
And it sounds like you have to keep each other A, motivated and B, you guys are partners in it, share so much on your YouTube channel. How do you sort of choose what to share?

Cole Sydnor:
There's been an evolution with that as well. We started the channel and when we started, we drew hard lines. We're not going to get into politics. We're not going to get into religion. We're not get into-

Charisma Sydnor:
Intimacy.

Cole Sydnor:
Intimacy. And over time we've played with those lines when we've felt comfortable. But yeah, it's a lot of conversations. And something that encourages us to share more or has encouraged us over the years is the feedback from the community. Because once we started kind of peeling the layers back or pulling the curtains back a little bit more and more, we started hearing from people about how beneficial that information was for them in their own world. And so that was an eye-opening moment for us. It's like, okay, maybe we should touch on some of these important topics that nobody else is talking about because of societal taboos and because people need this information.

Charisma Sydnor:
And will say Cole has come a long way when it comes to sharing and being vulnerable. I feel like when we first started the channel, you were like, "I don't really want to share my morning routine." And then we shared one video and people were so thankful and grateful. It helped improve their morning routine with their spinal cord injury. And so now Cole is such an open book, even more than he was before. And he will share anything if it means that it's going to help one person.

Cole Sydnor:
And yeah, it was an evolution. The YouTube channel, I'm so grateful because it helped me just embrace all aspects of my disability because she's right. I was self-conscious and insecure about certain things. And then I said, screw that. This is me. This is who I am. It's fine. And once I shared those parts of my lives, I felt so not alone. I didn't say that well, but sometimes you feel like you're dealing with this yourself. You're the only person dealing with these problems. And then you share something like that to the world and you hear from 100 other people who are like, "Oh my God, thank you for sharing it. I had the same struggles every day. This is what I do about it."And then we all learn together.

Charisma Sydnor:
Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Peters:
So I guess the flip side of that is when you share something, somebody may alternately come back and share something with you. What do you think has been the most impactful thing that you've learned from your audience?

Cole Sydnor:
Well, the beautiful part is we're all affirming each other. We're all affirming and encouraging each other. I think that's super important. But as far as what we've learned from our community, I think it's just the love we have for each other. Everybody is so loving and so understanding. And you watched our video recently, which is about burnout. And our community showed us so much support, and it helps us remember that it's okay to have these emotions. It's okay to feel like you can't do something when we're the ones that are typically preaching positivity and motivating people to go out there and live a full life. It's nice for people to encourage us in the same way.

Charisma Sydnor:
I think I could think of one specific thing that you learned. I feel like when you started learning how to dress yourself, people would comment on how they learned how to dress themselves with the same level of function that you have. And I feel like you've read a couple of those and tried it out and found that it worked. I think you reached out to one person who sent you a video personally showing how he got dressed as a quadriplegic. So I feel like that's the one specific thing I can think of that has made a big difference in our life.

Cole Sydnor:
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, the community is very responsive. And the other one actually is with video gaming.

Charisma Sydnor:
Oh yeah.

Cole Sydnor:
Because I am streaming my video games now. And a lot of people in the stream are also disabled, and they will post pictures and share videos of how they game with their setup. And it's really cool to see how everybody is engaging in this hobby that we all share.

Charisma Sydnor:
Yeah. It's just a huge community.

Dr. Peters:
I love that. I think that's great. And I like that it's definitely you give some, you take some, and then you learn some and you're sharing and it's a great opportunity. So you have your own house now. Any tips on sort of making the house accessible for someone with a disability like yours?

Cole Sydnor:
Well, what was very nice about looking for houses in California were that most of them are ranchers. Since there's earthquakes going on, there's not a lot of very tall buildings. So that makes life difficult when all the houses on the market, all the bedrooms are on the second floor.

Charisma Sydnor:
And we struggled a lot with that in Virginia.

Cole Sydnor:
We did. So first tip, move somewhere with a lot of earthquakes.

Charisma Sydnor:
No.

Cole Sydnor:
No, no. I mean, I would recommend finding a rancher. But one thing that we do, doorways are a big thing. So we always put a handle on the inside of a door closer to the hinges so that I can go through the door and then reach behind me and close the door behind me using that handle. Super easy.

Charisma Sydnor:
Open floor plans.

Cole Sydnor:
Open floor plans, of course. But also there's so much technology out there these days that you can have a smart home. And smart homes are more accessible homes. So for me, I use the garage to get in and out, but I can't reach the button on the wall. Fortunately, we have a smart garage, so I can just pull the app up on my phone. I can open the garage that way. And then the rest of our house, a lot of our lights are also smart lights, so then I can control my environment that way. So it's all about control really. And technology is a big part of that.

Charisma Sydnor:
Yeah, we have technology everywhere we go. It's great. Yes.

Dr. Peters:
And I think that will resonate with not just our patients or listeners with spinal cord injury, but also for people that may have had a stroke or multiple sclerosis, they're having the same kind of mobility issues. So I just want to say Cole and Charisma, you guys rock. You guys rock and roll. Okay?

Cole Sydnor:
Rocking and rolling.

Dr. Peters:
Absolutely. So thank you so much for sharing with our listeners for the Brain and Life podcast. I'm sure they'll find this very exciting, and I'm sure they'll tune in to your YouTube channel, Role with Cole and Charisma.

Charisma Sydnor:
Awesome.

Cole Sydnor:
Yes, thank you. Thanks for listening. And to all the listeners, bye. Thank you.

Charisma Sydnor:
Thank you for having us.

Dr. Peters:
Absolutely.
Hello Brain and Life podcast audience, thank you for joining us today. I am again, Dr. Katie Peters, your podcast co-host. And today we'll be discussing spinal cord injuries.
I'm honored to introduce our medical expert, Dr. Alberto Martinez-Arizala. He has 36 years of clinical experience as a board-certified neurologist, and he specializes in treating patients with spinal cord injuries. He served active duty in the US Army and was an assistant professor at the F. Edward Herbert School of Medicine while he was stationed at Walter Reed Medical Center. He now is part of the faculty of the Department of Neurology at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine, and currently holds the rank of Professor of Clinical Neurology and serves as the chief of the Spine Division. He is an investigator at the Miami Project to Cure Paralysis. I'm very excited for him to join us today.
Dr. Martinez, welcome to the Brain and Life Podcast.

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
Thank you, and thanks for having me.

Dr. Peters:
Absolutely. And before we got to go on to discussing this, you mentioned that again, spinal cord injuries are not really studied by neurologist must. That you're a rare person that is an expert in this. Can you just give us the basics of what causes spinal cord injury?

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
Sure. Basically, the most common things are traumatic. Motor vehicle accidents are way up there, falls and much sad thing is the gunshot wounds, active knife and gun club. Those are the big ticket items. After that, they come a lot. Diving kind of injuries used to happen more. Education here in Florida, they started feet first and then they did think first. So that has helped a lot because prevention's worth a pound of cure. But the big ticket items are that falls, motor vehicle accidents and violence.

Dr. Peters:
So it sounds like it can be like a myriad of causes. I think feet first is an important lesson for anybody diving in. Are there specific diagnostic tests that our patients would have to undergo if they had a spinal cord injury?

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
Well, it starts at roadside or accident sight. Paramedics, the EMTs are excellent. They know about the mobilization of the patient, which is most important thing. Often after a traumatic injury, you have an unstable spine. The spine is the housing, the bones. The inside is a spinal cord. So if the bones are not stable, you start moving the patient around, you could potentially make the injury worse. If there's another level that's fractured that moves, you can injure the cord more below or above that. So that's very important. You'll see the patients come in the emergency room, they roll in with a cervical collar after trauma until their spine is cleared or in a backboard. Basically strapped, you can't move. Nowadays, the ABCs, you got to be able to breathe your blood pressure and your heart rate. So that's the initial care.

Dr. Peters:
And you mentioned the surgeons get involved and they get a CT of the spine?

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
Generally you get a CT of the spine. Nowadays, they're so fast, they can scan the whole spine in a few minutes and get that picture. You know, MRI takes longer, but that's what actually lets you see the spinal cord itself, the injury, not just the fracture, but the injury.

Dr. Peters:
And I think that's so important. You really describe sort of the first steps. And so it is a multidisciplinary team. When do you get involved with patients of spinal cord injury?

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
Well, when I cover the inpatient ward, we would do consults once the patient is stabilized. So once they're out of the, sometimes they ask you to see them when they're trying to get out of the intensive care unit, but once they're stabilized. Then it's a matter of evaluation for rehabilitation that they're able to get out of bed and start moving around. And after surgery or after an injury in the neck, that often will wind up with a hard cervical collar they have to wear around the clock. Thoracic injuries and lumbars, you've got the big brace that you have to wear when you get out of bed.
So we're asked to go in there, evaluate the patient for transfer during patient rehab. And that is the next step after that. The other things that happen to a person after a spinal cord injury that have a major impact in their life that they have to process, you got to set up a program. For example, how do you manage your bladder? That's not upfront when you're paralyzed, but you have to have a successful management of the bladder. So it's hard to process all that if you're going to be three, four, six weeks in rehab. And I wind up filling that void.

Dr. Peters:
I appreciate your comments because it's not only about how you're caring for the patient, but how you're being an advocate for them. Now you're an investigator at the Miami Project to Cure Paralysis. Can you give us some exciting developments in that area for treating or even repairing spinal cord injury?

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
Oh goodness. We only have how many minutes? Well, there's a lot of stuff going on. And what I see exciting now that's making more headways is the electrical stimulation, whether it be epidural or transcutaneous stimulation of the spinal cord to wake up these circuits and the brain machine interface. And Miami Project has got a couple of programs that are going on that.
Some of these movements, like walking the bottom of your spinal cord may be disconnected, but it remembers how to do things, how to take steps. So can these things be stimulated? And one of the things that I saw in the last American Spinal Cord injury meeting is how perhaps you can combine both approaches of trying to get things to grow back and combining them with stimulation. So I think there are a lot of avenues open in the future. It's hard to tell a patient who wants it now, "You have to be patient."

Dr. Peters:
What you're doing, that sounds really exciting. And I like the idea of the electrical stimulation, sort of almost rebooting your system to see if those nerves and those muscles can make those connections again. Is there anything that we can do now for our listeners, for our audience to sort of, I guess keep our spinal column healthy or to keep our spinal cord healthy?

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
The only thing I can come up with after years of doing this for your spine is don't smoke. That's not good for your discs. For the lower back or the lower spine, weight control. And then overall, the trunk exercises for strengthening your core, your shoulder girdle. It's not going to keep your discs from degenerating, but it can help you keep from being symptomatic from it.

Dr. Peters:
Yeah. I think we all want to prevent symptoms. We would love to prevent anything happening to our spinal cord or column, but definitely if we can also prevent symptoms. Now as we sort of wrap up this interview, I want to ask you, what are sort of if you had to pick your hopes for the future for patients with spinal cord injury? What would be your top picks? Your hopes for 2024 and beyond?

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
Well, first of all, it is always restoring function. You don't have to cure everything, but if you can just get a little bit, it can mean a world of independence, freedom in doing things in the life of these patients. And the other thing is I just wish to keep advocating the insurance companies, government. It's crazy the pushback to get wheelchairs, the appropriate wheelchairs for these patients, to get the catheters. So we got all the organizations that advocate for spinal cord injury, the Paralyzed Veterans of America, Christopher Reeves, you name it, they'll get in there and push because it's always the money. But it's hard on the life of persons with spinal cord injury.

Dr. Peters:
Well, I appreciate that you're not only taking care of the spinal cord patients, you're innovating for them, you're advocating for them. And again, thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure our listeners learned a great deal.

Dr. Martinez-Arizala:
My pleasure. Let me leave you one thought. Because I had a patient who gave me always a hard time. She only came to see me when she was in trouble. And her fight with me was, "I can't be sick. I got to go to work." And this is a quadriplegic. And I told her, "Listen, some people admire the sports figure and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, they do great things. But for you to get up in the morning, get to work, put in an eight-hour day like the rest of humanity, I mean, I admire you." So some people, their spinal cord injury doesn't define them. They have a life and I wish they could all do that.

Dr. Peters:
I agree. I second that wish. Okay, great. Well, thank you so much, Alberto. This was a very enlightening conversation and I also want to thank of course our Brain and Life podcast listeners and wishing everyone brain wellness and spinal cord wellness.

Dr. Correa:
Thank you again for joining us today on the Brain and Life podcast. Follow and subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss our weekly episodes. You can also sign up to receive the Brain and Life magazine for free at brainandlife.org. Don't forget about Brain and Life en Espanol.

Dr. Peters:
Also, for each episode, you can find out how to connect with our team and our guests along with great resources in our show notes. We love it when we hear your ideas or questions. You can send these in an email to BLpodcast@brainandlife.org and leave us a message at 612-928-6206.

Dr. Correa:
You can also find that information in our show notes and you can follow Katie and me and the Brain and Life Magazine on many of your preferred social media channels. We are your hosts, Dr. Daniel Correa, connecting with you from New York City and online @NeuroDrCorrea

Dr. Peters:
And Dr. Katie Peters, joining you from Durham North Carolina and online @KatiePetersMDPhD.

Dr. Correa:
Most importantly, thank you and all of our community members that trust us with their health and everyone living with neurologic conditions.

Dr. Peters:
We hope together we can take steps to better brain health and each thrive with our own abilities every day.

Dr. Correa:
Before you start the next episode, we would appreciate if you could give us five stars and leave a review. This helps others find the Brain and Life Podcast. See you next week.

“Roll with Cole & Charisma" On Building a Life Together as an Interabled Couple

Additional Resources

Follow us!

Episode Transcript