How Writer John Hendrickson Learned to Embrace His Stutter

Episode Transcript

Dr. Daniel Correa:
From the American Academy of Neurology, I'm Dr. Daniel Correa. This is the Brain & Life podcast.
How clearly do any of us speak? On top of that, we all sometimes have so much stress and anxiety with just doing a presentation or even talking to someone on the phone about something that we're a little bit anxious about. Many people deal with things such as stage fright or performance anxiety when they're doing something at work or at school. But imagine the challenge when you also have a speech impairment such as childhood-onset fluency disorder, which is really the long-name version for what most people call stuttering. We really need to work at embracing the diversity of the way people speak and different expression patterns. I think this will make all of our worlds richer and our experiences much better. Many people are working on their own speech patterns, but it's so important that we understand that not everyone is going to have the falsehood of perfect diction. In his new book, Life on Delay: Making Peace with a Stutter, our guest, John Hendrickson, shares what it was like to grow up with childhood-onset fluency disorder and finding his voice through writing.
In this episode, we also talked to one of the medical experts that John himself interviewed for his book, Professor Scott Yaruss. He's a speech and language specialist who has also helped many people of all ages with fluency conditions. In our upcoming episode, we also feature disability activist, Paula Carozzo, who shares her experience living with the impact of a hypoxic brain injury as a child, and how she is working now to fight stigma for people living with disabilities in all aspects of life, including fashion and sports apparel. This episode will be released in both English and Spanish. Also, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss our episode with humorous, Samantha Irby, the author of Quietly Hostile, who shares her experience of being both a child and a care partner for her own mother who lived with MS and had limited access to specialty care.
Welcome back to the Brain & Life podcast. The concept of words, whether spoken or written, are essential ways we share stories, preserve memories, and help us grow as a society. But how words are expressed, heard, read, understood involves a process called fluency. Our guest today has made words and writing his profession and also lived with a lifelong stutter or fluency disorder. As a writer and senior editor at The Atlantic, John Hendrickson's life centers around the written word, but it's his history and struggle to speak that has shaped his life. After a story he wrote about stuttering caught the national attention in 2019, he decided to share his own experience and those of others with some deep reflection on stuttering and reflection in our own society in his book, Life on Delay: Making Peace with a Stutter. In the book, he interviews researchers, therapists, fellow stutterers, and parents of children who stutter for a broad scope of stuttering or childhood-onset fluency disorder, which is the other term. John, thank you so much for joining us today.

John Hendrickson:
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
So I wanted to go back. You started with a challenge with your own speech, but you chose a career path with writing and exploring words. Is writing something that you felt just helped you find your own voice?

John Hendrickson:
Absolutely. Reading and writing were always my favorite parts of school growing up and writing in particular has always been a venue in which I have been able to glimpse the clarity and control that alludes me out loud. It's a place in which I feel like I can close that distance between how things sound in my head and how they actually come out.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
And we've mentioned in a previous episode the condition called dyslexia, which is the process when you're reading, that you get disorganization of letters and words. But for you, we're really talking about a fluency or an expressive disorder that most people just refer to as stuttering. I wanted to clarify and from your own perspective, in your own experience for yourself, did you have any difficulties with dyslexia and reading or understanding things?

John Hendrickson:
None whatsoever. And because the clients of stuttering is relatively narrow and relatively unexplored compared with many other disorders, it's often misdiagnosed. The kids who stutter are often thought to be kids who can't read or have any other number of disorders or that it's purely an anxiety issue or Tourette's. And while many neurological disorders can coexist, and while that's certainly the case, it's not a cause and effect and it's wrong to assume something about a person who stutters like they have trouble reading.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
John, in 2019, you took your own work of writing in The Atlantic and wrote a story covering a public figure living with stuttering or talking about their own experiences with stuttering. Was that your first time writing about stuttering in a public way?

John Hendrickson:
Yes. And as a person who stutters, I always knew that Joe Biden was also a person who stuttered. But Biden has, in almost all cases, referred to it as a childhood problem which he has overcome. And while Biden manages his own stutter very well, there are moments in which he exhibits clear symptoms of stuttering. Secondary behaviors like blinking, loss of eye contact, word switching in order to get out of words or phrases, which he may block on. I mentioned that to my editors after Biden first entered the race in April 2019. And I told his campaign, "I'm a person who stutters. I want to ask him about that part of his life." When I asked him about it, he did frame it as a childhood problem. And in my article, I tried to unpack why, why is this such a hard thing to talk about, why does it carry that weight for so much of our lives.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
And do you think in that process of writing the article, it started to unpack things for yourself?

John Hendrickson:
Without a doubt. I had lived as a person who stuttered my entire life, but I didn't bring it to the surface of my identity either. I also had barely researched it at all prior to writing that article. Only in the process of reporting and researching that I first learn that it was a neurological disorder and that it could be considered a disability and could be protected under the ADA. Learning all that began to reorient my sense of self.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
You had speech expression challenges at a very young age, so you may not personally remember the beginning. But as you did the research for your book and met with your family, what were some of the earliest challenges you and your family noticed, and what were the first steps you guys took?

John Hendrickson:
The three main manifestations of stuttering are prolongations, blocks, and repetitions. I rarely prolongate, but I have a fair amount of blocks and repetitions. So I think both of those. And my early therapy like a lot of people of my generation, I'm a millennial and this applies to Gen X, boomers, everyone as you keep going back in time, we all had a rather antiquated form of therapy in which total fluency, perfect smooth speech was the only goal. And we would go to sessions and practice reading slowly or talking slowly. And you can manufacture fluency in those environments if you say, "My name is John. I am five years old," but nobody wants to talk like that in real-world situations.
So those techniques, while they may create fluency in a therapy room, they're extremely difficult to deploy in a classroom or in a restaurant, in a real-world situation, on the playground. And that artificial robotic monotone can be just as embarrassing as a person who stutters. And so more modern therapeutic approaches are all about clarity of message, confidence, maintaining eye contact, cutting down secondary behaviors, or avoidance behaviors, and teaching people that it's okay to stutter.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
And for you and some of the other people that you interviewed, what were some of the disadvantages to this as you described antiquated approach?

John Hendrickson:
Some people call it chasing the fluency god. And people may go to intensive programs, they may drop thousands of dollars, and again, glimpse fluency and get a taste of it, but then it goes away weeks later, months later. And then you may feel worse about yourself than you did before. What I just described there is a paraphrase of what a leading expert in the field of stuttering, Dr. Scott Yaruss, told me in my book. Dr. Yaruss is at Michigan State. In addition to researching this topic, he also treats patients. And the thing he really tries to teach patients is get out there and talk. Pick up the phone, don't be afraid to order the item off the menu that you actually want.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
Thinking back to the therapy efforts that you went through and your own early schooling, was there some techniques that you felt that you learned for yourself to help you get to where you are now?

John Hendrickson:
My mom took me into a life-changing therapist when I was in the middle of high school, and I had fallen into a trap of avoidance. And I would be in the school cafeteria and really blocking on a word. I remember it was a red Gatorade at the snack bar, and I just have so much trouble in the R sound that I would eventually just point as the clerk at the snack bar would move her hand along all the beverages as if we were playing battleship or something. And I would furiously nod and be like, "That's the one," when it got to the point. And so I told my therapist this and he said, "Okay, so you're going to go back tomorrow, but you're not going to point. You have to only use your words."
So those types of challenges is desensitization challenges, and you can apply that to the same... As I mentioned, picking up the telephone as opposed to just letting it ring or I used to go to restaurants, and I would order cheeseburgers medium instead of medium rare because again, I had trouble with the R sound. So all of those little adjustments you make that don't seem like a big deal at a time, but if they start adding up, hundreds, and then more and more and more, you're living a different kind of life. And then those adjustments, they become bigger, and they become, "Well, I won't apply for that kind of job because I have to talk a lot." And it can really take over your existence. And so I think just to get back to your question, therapeutic techniques like desensitization and really challenging someone to get outside of their comfort zone, those have proven to me to be the most effective.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
I think if any of us want to do anything, get somewhere, or be something, it all has to start with an action. You described something you called The Look when you're in a conversation or when you're making even a first impression with people. Can you explore that for our listeners and explain what you mean by The Look that you encounter and that others might encounter when they have a fluency issue?

John Hendrickson:
The Look is a combination of many different emotions at the same time, and it comes about on a person's face at the moment that the person they're talking to begins to stutter. It's a look of confusion, revulsion, discomfort, fear. It's many things at once. And any person who stutters has received The Look thousands of times, and in some cases, they may get it every day, they may get it multiple times a day, and it's just another part of living with this condition. And I don't blame anybody for giving someone The Look because it is such a misunderstood disorder.
But I'm hoping that by listening to this podcast or reading a book or an article about the topic that it does just shed some more light on it, and it does make it easier to understand what this disorder is. And hopefully, it would make it easier for non-stutterer to react the next time, during a conversation with a person who stutters, and to be sure the very best reaction you can offer is neutrality and patience. You don't have to baby a person who stutters. You don't have to pat them on the head. You don't have to interrupt them. You don't have to finish their sentences. You don't have to clench your fist, and just wait for it to be over, just be neutral.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
What kinds of issues did you hear from other people, or have you experienced professionally throughout your life balancing stuttering and your work practice?

John Hendrickson:
Many people who stutter have told me how they've been turned away from jobs because of their stutter with concrete examples. They've been told by hiring managers, "I would give you this job if you didn't stutter." I was told as much in as many words when I applied for a job at a coffee shop when I was in college and the manager told me, "Sorry, I can't hire you because I need this cafe to be a place where customers feel comfortable." And that pattern, that behavior persists across all levels of employment. But it can affect many other aspects of your life, romantic relationships. It can create a non-ideal coping scenario. Many people who stutter deal with substance abuse issues. It goes on and on. And while all of this can be depressing, it's important to talk about it. It's important to get it out there and let people know they're not alone as they're trying to navigate these things.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
John, thank you so much for taking the time, sharing with our listeners, and I look forward to more of your writing.

John Hendrickson:
Thank you, Daniel. It was a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me on.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
Can't get enough of the Brain & Life podcast? Keep the conversation going on social media when you follow @neurodrcorrea and @brainandlifemag or visit brainandlife.org. John just went into great depth sharing for us the challenges he's had throughout his life with his expressive fluency disorder, and then on top of that, all that he learned from so many of the people he interviewed in putting together his book.
Professor Scott Yaruss is a speech and language specialist with over 30 years of experience and is based out of Michigan State University. Not only has he published research, chapters, and books on stuttering and language disorders, but he has also produced and published practical materials for therapists and other clinicians, but also people living with childhood or adult-onset fluency disorder. He also teaches seminars and online courses on stuttering management. As we heard in the writing of his book, John Hendrickson met with Dr. Yaruss. And we are so glad, Scott, that you could join us here today to talk with us and our listeners.

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
Well, thank you, Daniel. I appreciate that and I appreciate the chance to talk with you and your listeners.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
So I wanted to go back at the beginning in our understanding about this and if you could explain for our listeners what is an expressive fluency disorder.

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
Sure. Now, that's a term, expressive fluency disorder, that speech-language pathologists don't tend to use. We tend to talk about stuttering as the name of the condition. Although, technically, the term is childhood-onset fluency disorder for what we call typical stuttering that starts in childhood, and then also, other types of stuttering that can start in adulthood. They're different conditions, but they are similar in that there can be disruptions in speech. So we tend to talk about stuttering as the name of the condition, although historically, there's been a little bit of hesitancy to use that word. It carries a stigma. So people will use terms like fluency disorder or fluency issue instead, trying to avoid saying stutter.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
For our own simplicity and the continued discussion, we'll use the term stuttering disorder, and we have that context for all of our listeners a little bit about how the terminology is used differently. What's the difference between an acute injury that results in a problem the way someone expresses their speech or their fluency like we might see at what we call expressive aphasia after a stroke or a brain injury? And we've talked about before on this on the podcast, from something that's a childhood-onset or an adult-onset stuttering disorder.

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
So stuttering has some unique observable characteristics that are similar in some ways to what you would see with aphasia or other type of adult-onset, typically, expressive speech or language issue. But it also has some characteristics that are more unique. Those characteristics are the common symptoms of stuttering. Repetitions, prolongations, blocks, and those are speech characteristics where the flow of speech is interrupted in some way. With a repetition, a sound or a part of a word is re- re- re- re- repeated more than once like that as the person is experiencing a moment where they're stuck and trying to move forward.
The prolongation that I mentioned, that's a moment where a sound is stretched out like that, and often you can hear a bit of physical tension perhaps in those muscles as people are trying to move out of that moment of stuttering. Or the block is a moment when simply no sound comes out at all, and that's typically associated with a lot of physical tension because the person is stuck and trying to get unstuck.
Those characteristics, the repetition, prolongation, and block, are consistent in stuttering that occurs in childhood or stuttering that might occur following some type of neurological injury in adulthood. But they're different from what you might see in a person with aphasia or apraxia or other types of, typically, adult-onset but brain injury-related conditions or speech disorders.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
Now, in a child who's having a stuttering disorder starting off or developing, do we need to get brain imaging and see if there's an injury there also? Or generally in that situation, how do you decide in that context when the language is something that may be more acute or more concerning?

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
Often families ask me when a child has had what seems like a sudden onset or what may be a sudden onset or stuttering, they worry, "Is there something else going on? Do I need neuroimaging?" I've worked with families who've taken their children to the emergency room because the stuttering onset seems so acute. They had meetings with neurologists. The answer is that if a child is experiencing stuttering that is not your typical onset of childhood-onset fluency disorder, typical stuttering, at where neuroimaging might be necessary, where neurologist input might be necessary, you would generally also see something else going on that would indicate a neurological issue. I hate to use the word just, but not just stuttering. If the only behavior that you're seeing is disrupted speech, those repetitions, those prolongations and blocks, that is in all likelihood typical childhood-onset fluency disorder, typical stuttering, where neuroimaging is not going to add anything to our clinical understanding. But 99.9% of the time, no, the neuroimaging will not add to our clinical understanding for a particular child.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
That's helpful to understand because you in your own research and several of other centers that you've mentioned do neuroimaging or even functional imaging of how the brain creates language or responds to language to understand better about stuttering. Now, since this is a newer age than years before when people just got therapy, what is it that we're really understanding about how stuttering happens and people who have it in childhood-onset? And are there differences between these different symptoms, the prolongations, the blocks, and the repetitions that someone might experience?

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
It's a terrific question, and I can only answer it partially based on what we know now, what we know based on work that my colleagues have done. My own work is not in neuroimaging, so I don't want to take credit for something I haven't done, but my colleagues have done outstanding work in this. We know that the brains of children who stutter are indeed different in a number of important ways from the brains of children who don't stutter. Now, these aren't the kinds of differences that you can just glance at an MRI and say, "Oh, look, there is a brain damage like you might see after a stroke." It's not that type of difference. There are much more subtle differences. For example, in the pathways between various centers of the brain that coordinate planning what you want to say and saying it. It's not just one location, like you might look for a lesion in aphasia. It's multiple locations that are not damaged but different.
And it's those differences in how the brain coordinates the planning and the production of speech that when you look at groups of children who stutter and you compare them to groups of children who don't stutter, you can see some fairly consistent differences. What this tells us is that stuttering is not simply a behavior that children are doing. It's not something they've picked up or a habit or something they've learned. It's an actual difference that can be traced not just to their neurology, but before that, to their genes because there are also consistent genetic differences between most children who stutter and children who don't stutter. So it's a fairly complicated picture. We don't have a full understanding yet, but the field has come, oh, a tremendous ways in better understanding the fact that stuttering is not just something that children do because they aren't trying hard enough or they didn't learn right. It's an actual disruption that occurs at the neurological level and how they plan and produce speech.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
And I wanted to clarify because you said they have some differences and the functional pathways that they have in their brain, but you are not saying that they have differences in their intellect or their thinking or their cognition, are you?

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
Correct. There is no difference in intellectual ability between people who stutter and people who don't stutter. Once upon a time, people thought that there was, and so it's very important that we make that clear. People who stutter are not less intelligent. They're not less able in any other way. It's just that for some reason that we're beginning to understand better, while they're planning what they want to say, while they're getting ready to say it, there is a moment when they know exactly what sound they want to produce, and this is the word that people who stutter tend to use, they feel stuck when trying to produce it. They're talking along, the words are flowing, and then boom, all of a sudden, they can't move forward to the next sound. It would be like if you were writing a letter or typing and all of a sudden one of your fingers didn't want to hit that next key, but then after a moment it did again, and you're able to get moving again.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
When you are talking to another provider or even a parent, what kinds of tools do you mention to them about helping someone manage the stuttering that they have?

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
I can actually highlight some of the most important points. And the most important point of all is that stuttering, based on our understanding and this is a developing understanding, but stuttering appears to simply reflect a variety of speech production. There are different abilities that people have in a range of skills, and for some people, their ability to produce speech with forward movement smoothly all the time is disrupted. And that can have huge impacts on people's lives because we live in a society where the smoothness of your speech, the skill with which one presents themselves is highly judged and viewed very critically. And that's where a lot of the difficulties in stuttering arise. It's not so much in the fact that they stutter. The disruption in speech itself does not have to cause a problem for people. It often does because it's uncomfortable for them. It doesn't feel good to get stuck when you're trying to say something.
People may get impatient with themselves because they want to express their ideas. And other people often aren't terribly patient or understanding or accepting of that. And so it's that mismatch between what a person's able to do and what they wish they could do or what society wishes they could do. That's where the problem comes in. And if we as clinicians, as speech-language pathologists, or as practitioners from other fields, or even as family members, recognize that the real-world problems come not from the fact that the person stutters, but rather from the fact that there's a mismatch between what they're able to do and what they wish they could do or what society wishes they could do. That's where the problem arises, and we can do a lot to diminish the negativity surrounding that mismatch.
For example, helping children learn that, yeah, it's frustrating when you get stuck when talking, but what you say is important to say even if you get stuck. Yeah, it might take you a little longer to say what you want to say than it takes other people, but that's okay because what you say is valuable and worthy of being said just the same. Teaching society that just a little bit of extra time will make it easier for people to talk. That's the most important aspect of the communication equation for people who stutter, and we can work on that whether we're working with a child or an adult. There are, of course, mechanical changes that we can also help people learn to smooth out their speech at some time, but those mechanical changes always take extra effort from the person. And so they're not quick fixes and they're not magical cures. They're workarounds. Those workarounds work best in the context of knowing that it's okay to stutter. And so that's where we start typically in therapy. Now, our field didn't always know that.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
So it sounds like you're saying the expectations shouldn't necessarily be working towards somehow having perfect fluency in diction. This is really much more about adapting.

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
Yes, yes. Now, this is not to say that we wouldn't benefit from continued research on how to help people speak more fluently. Certainly, there's nothing wrong with that because many people would indeed like to speak more fluently. But what we find is that for the vast majority of speakers, doing that, changing their speech that they're more fluent, comes at a cost. It's not a free thing that, "Oh, just do this and you'll be fluent." It takes effort and it takes cost. And though many people spend a good part of their lives chasing that fluency, most actually find peace when they begin to let that go, and when they learn that they can say what they want to say.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
Children, unfortunately, sometimes can be quite harsh to each other or society can be harsh to many other people. What do you tell family members and some of the people that you help support and care about managing with the bullying and the other challenges they may encounter outside of their supported environment?

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
Yeah, absolutely. This is a significant fear for parents, and it's a significant concern for us as speech-language pathologists to make sure that we're preparing children for this. The world can be a tough place, there is no doubt about that. And speech that is obviously different from other speech is sort of low-hanging fruit for bullies. It's really easy to pick up on the fact that a child who feels insecure about his stuttering is going to be really easy to pick on. And so we do address that in our therapy. We focus heavily in therapy on preparing children to handle the occurrence of bullying and the adverse impact of bullying that they might experience. Fortunately, there's been quite a bit of research about this, not just in stuttering. We have research in stuttering, but also in other fields, childhood development in general. And it turns out that the best way to diminish the occurrence and the impact of bullying is not to try to hide the difference from other people, but to be open about the differences. And this is something that we learn in other areas of life right now.
Our society, in particular, I think is struggling with this. We feel like we may have made some progress, and now, there's the inevitable backlash. But openness, honesty, transparency, talking about differences rather than hiding differences, and being able to say, "Yes, I stutter when I talk. That's a difference in how my brain processes speech. You can pick on me about it if you want. It doesn't feel good to me, but that's just how I am. It's just how I talk." Those kinds of statements. When we can help students make those kinds of statements, it actually diminishes the power of the bully considerably. Now, as I say that, I know that that is a small comfort to a parent who is wanting to protect their child. Of course, they are, right? But what we learn is that as children develop the self-esteem, the personal power, the self-confidence that goes with that journey of getting to the point where they can say, "Yeah, I talk differently. That's okay," they become impervious to those comments over time.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
This also brings up the question about protection under the Americans with Disabilities Act, both in professional workspaces or in other situations, how do you talk with some of the people that you support with in navigating this in our society?

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
It's important that when people who stutter are ready... Now, this is a very hard thing to do, but when they are ready to do so, they can advocate for themselves because indeed stuttering is covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act, under ADA, because it reflects something that can cause disability for people. There are very few case law records that we have to go on to define the boundaries of stuttering protection under ADA. That's typically how that type of thing is done. There are a few cases, but not many. But people who stutter are entitled by ADA and just by human decency, in my opinion, to the time that they need to talk, and they need a little bit more time to talk. So as people are comfortable saying in a job interview, "You'll notice that I stutter when I talk. That means that I need just a little bit more time in my answers," or if they're in one of these automated interviewing systems, it gives you 30 seconds to give your response, and that puts undue time pressure on people who stutter. That is unfair.
And we and others are working to raise awareness of these issues to say, "No, you shouldn't have these kinds of time issues." Even talking to Alexa or Siri. She's going to give up on you if you're not quick enough. So being open, advocating, being able to say, "I need and deserve and am due this accommodation." The accommodation for stuttering is fairly mild, just a little bit of time. And what the law says is that employers are required to make reasonable accommodations. And in nearly all cases, nearly all cases, a little extra time is a reasonable accommodation. But I recognize at the very same time as I say all of this, that this does put a significant burden on the person who stutters to be able to be at a place in their lives where they can be open about their stuttering, where they can advocate for themselves in their employment setting or in their job interview.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
Lastly, Scott, I wanted to get to when you first start seeing a child or adolescent, what's your primary goal that they understand, and they hear from you?

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
There are two messages that I try to give to children and teens and adults, actually. The first is that help is available. Because often people, when they first come in for therapy, they're feeling helpless, they're feeling worried, they're feeling fearful, and I want to let them know that they're going to be okay. Okay doesn't necessarily mean what they thought it meant, though. They may think, "I'm going to be fluent. I'm going to get rid of this. You're going to cure it." Stuttering is not that kind of condition. So I let them know that there is much that we can do to make it easier for them to say what they want to say. So I want to offer a little hope in that area.
And the second thing is that I want to plant the seed right from the beginning that the way we're going to get there might not be the way they thought. Yeah, I'll teach them some techniques if that's helpful for them. But what's going to help them get there is knowing that what they say is important, whether it's stuttered or not, and that it's okay to stutter. And that with me, at the very least, even if the whole world doesn't feel like a place where it's safe to stutter. At least when they come into that room with me, they can truly be themselves, themselves being people who stutter. And we try to use that first, sometimes first, safe space. Often, they'll have other safe spaces like at home or with a trusted friend or family member or by themselves where they know that they can talk out loud to themselves, and they have a safe space to be themselves. And what we try to do is shift the focus away from fluency and smoothness of speech back toward communication.
Because the reason we talk is not to produce words fluently. That's not why we open our mouths. We open our mouths in order to convey a thought, to convey an idea to share with somebody. And we want to try to get people's focus back to that original purpose because every person who stutters, every person who stutters can communicate. It may be very hard and uncomfortable for them, and we're going to work on reducing that difficulty and that discomfort. But if we can help them get back to the fact that they can express themselves, they can share their thoughts and ideas, then that helps them get the big picture back in mind. And people who stutter will tell you communication can be enjoyable even if they stutter while they're communicating, and that's what we want to get back to for them.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
Thank you, Scott, for sharing your time, for helping us improve everyone's understanding about stuttering and stuttering disorders so that we can all make space and time for those around us.

Dr. Scott Yaruss:
Well, thank you so much, Dan. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. As you can tell, it's a topic I feel quite passionately about, and we want to spread the word however we can, to just give people that little, tiny bit of extra time. It can make a world of difference.

Dr. Daniel Correa:
And for our listeners, make sure to check out the show notes. We'll have resources there that Dr. Yaruss recommends, and that we have also through the American Academy of Neurology and other resources for you to learn more about stuttering and other speech and language disorders.
Thank you again for joining us today on the Brain & Life podcast. Follow and subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss our weekly episodes. You can also sign up to receive the Brain & Life magazine for free at brainandlife.org and even get the Español version. For each episode, you can find out how to connect with our team and our guests along with great resources in our show notes. We love it when we hear your ideas or questions. You can send these in by email to BLpodcast@brainandlife.org and leave us a message at 612-928-6206. You can also follow the Brain & Life magazine and me on any of your preferred social media channels.
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How Writer John Hendrickson Learned to Embrace His Stutter

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